My armchair china noob opinion here.. I'm very sad to see the direction this is all taken..
My predication for Hong Kong
I don’t see how Hong Kong’s protests will be resolved peacefully. Xi Jinping wants to maintain complete order and control. He cannot seem be the leader and kowtows to the free people and external forces influencing Hong Kong. He is on a purification mission – securing complete ideological purity within China, and Chinas regions (if there really is a difference). For China, this will permanently tarnish their international reputation, but Xi Jinping doesn’t care nor do the Chinese people since ideological purity (Xi Jinping Thought) is more important than a treaty/commitment for one country two systems. If China continues down the “crack down on protesters” road, which they will, there will be no return and their name will be forever tarnished in the international community – a necessary sacrifice from A CCP perspective since order and ideological purity is paramount.
From a protester perspective, this backs them into an inescapable corner. If they know of modern Chinese history, they would know that dissidents are not treated kindly. There is no room for impurity of thought and as showed in XinJiang, they will have purity either through education or destruction. To the protester, they are “pot committed” to use a poker term. There is no going back because there is no mercy in Xi Jinping’s China. I don’t see any means for a peaceful resolution. The protesters will be backed, like a dog, to the edge of a cliff, and eventually, they will realize its certain death behind (capitulating to China) or certain death forward, by fighting China. I believe they will die fighting, China will attempt to cut off their ability to translate their stories to outside nations, and slowly, all peoples with records of protest or are related to people that protest will be seized and forced into concentration camps like XinJiang.
There is a great struggle for Chinas Rejuvenation, and what many fail to see is the ideological battle is the core of the Party (Xi Jinping) goal, not finance. Xi Jinping is not a pragmatist, he is a Stalinist/Maoist/Xi Jinping thought ideology. The CCP must seek truth from facts, but sadly, there is no freedom of speech in China, no value for human life, therefore the facts are a single view point and are controlled by shrewdly incentivized bureaucrats. The facts for Xi Jinping are – order is guaranteed through ideological purity, and death is a form of neccesary purification and struggle. Xi Jinping is attempting to purify China with a great fire, but sadly, the fruit will be shit. Burning flesh and bones does not release rejuvenation, but produces slaves.
OK. Let me be the stupid kid again, pointing out the obvious. but i m willing to learn. I read the NYT article. Apart from the sensational headlines and highlights, the content is excellent. Great journalism. But is it my low expectation of chicom or my low moral character that makes me impressed by the 'professionalism' and 'administrative capability' of the Organisation? This is not a band of ideological racist fuddy duddies each ticking boxes to please the visceral whims of their superiors, which is the popular impression of chicom bureaucracy.
And this doesnt add up to anything like Concentration Camps and Genocide in the usual meaning of the terms, despite chicom showing "no mercy". In fact it seems an improvement to how Chicom used to conduct mass 'reformative' education camps throughout China in the past (ever since the 30s maybe?). To me the rather freewheeling way those terms are used by serious politicians (at least by virtue of their office if not their person) and analysts is always offensive as it trivilises the true horror faced by the victims. But more tangibly, strategy led by rhetoric usually misfires.
When the hype doesnt match the reality, legitimate issues that could have been addressed are lost. Legitimate attacks that could have succeeded are blunted and neutralised. Putting lipsticks on pigs, sort of speak, has been a rather persistent theme over the 70 years of countering Chicom's PRC , it has yielded little success and has been arguably outright counterproductive. And yet the recent trend seems to be to double a failed strategy. How about sitting down and properly studying what and how Chicom's PRC is doing right and wrong, in terms of sustaining chicom rule and improving PRC livelihood, without moral and ideological judgement? Know your enemy. I dont think America does. It s too busy weaving righteous and indignant narratives.
Qing Dynasty Chinese and ruling class in the mid 19th century used to say things like "OK they keep beating us and outsmarting us. But they ve only done it by cheating and by being totally devoid of scruples". Ah well...
At the risk of appearing pedantic. I note that in "seeking sutras from the west" [A reference to Journey to the west],” the west refers to India. “Journey to the West” [西游记】is a Ming novel. The actual Tang Monk, Xuan Zang 玄奘，who journeyed to India for 16 years returning to China with 75 previously unknown and untranslated sutra, wrote ”A Record of the Western Regions” 西域记。
Not at all pedantic. These days fact-checking, and accurate citation to historical events, is more important than ever! While certainly not applicable in this particular case, many contemporary references to Chinese history often seems to have been manipulated to serve a contemporary political purpose. So, kudos to Xuan Zang!
A good decision to skip the forum.
My armchair china noob opinion here.. I'm very sad to see the direction this is all taken..
My predication for Hong Kong
I don’t see how Hong Kong’s protests will be resolved peacefully. Xi Jinping wants to maintain complete order and control. He cannot seem be the leader and kowtows to the free people and external forces influencing Hong Kong. He is on a purification mission – securing complete ideological purity within China, and Chinas regions (if there really is a difference). For China, this will permanently tarnish their international reputation, but Xi Jinping doesn’t care nor do the Chinese people since ideological purity (Xi Jinping Thought) is more important than a treaty/commitment for one country two systems. If China continues down the “crack down on protesters” road, which they will, there will be no return and their name will be forever tarnished in the international community – a necessary sacrifice from A CCP perspective since order and ideological purity is paramount.
From a protester perspective, this backs them into an inescapable corner. If they know of modern Chinese history, they would know that dissidents are not treated kindly. There is no room for impurity of thought and as showed in XinJiang, they will have purity either through education or destruction. To the protester, they are “pot committed” to use a poker term. There is no going back because there is no mercy in Xi Jinping’s China. I don’t see any means for a peaceful resolution. The protesters will be backed, like a dog, to the edge of a cliff, and eventually, they will realize its certain death behind (capitulating to China) or certain death forward, by fighting China. I believe they will die fighting, China will attempt to cut off their ability to translate their stories to outside nations, and slowly, all peoples with records of protest or are related to people that protest will be seized and forced into concentration camps like XinJiang.
There is a great struggle for Chinas Rejuvenation, and what many fail to see is the ideological battle is the core of the Party (Xi Jinping) goal, not finance. Xi Jinping is not a pragmatist, he is a Stalinist/Maoist/Xi Jinping thought ideology. The CCP must seek truth from facts, but sadly, there is no freedom of speech in China, no value for human life, therefore the facts are a single view point and are controlled by shrewdly incentivized bureaucrats. The facts for Xi Jinping are – order is guaranteed through ideological purity, and death is a form of neccesary purification and struggle. Xi Jinping is attempting to purify China with a great fire, but sadly, the fruit will be shit. Burning flesh and bones does not release rejuvenation, but produces slaves.
OK. Let me be the stupid kid again, pointing out the obvious. but i m willing to learn. I read the NYT article. Apart from the sensational headlines and highlights, the content is excellent. Great journalism. But is it my low expectation of chicom or my low moral character that makes me impressed by the 'professionalism' and 'administrative capability' of the Organisation? This is not a band of ideological racist fuddy duddies each ticking boxes to please the visceral whims of their superiors, which is the popular impression of chicom bureaucracy.
And this doesnt add up to anything like Concentration Camps and Genocide in the usual meaning of the terms, despite chicom showing "no mercy". In fact it seems an improvement to how Chicom used to conduct mass 'reformative' education camps throughout China in the past (ever since the 30s maybe?). To me the rather freewheeling way those terms are used by serious politicians (at least by virtue of their office if not their person) and analysts is always offensive as it trivilises the true horror faced by the victims. But more tangibly, strategy led by rhetoric usually misfires.
When the hype doesnt match the reality, legitimate issues that could have been addressed are lost. Legitimate attacks that could have succeeded are blunted and neutralised. Putting lipsticks on pigs, sort of speak, has been a rather persistent theme over the 70 years of countering Chicom's PRC , it has yielded little success and has been arguably outright counterproductive. And yet the recent trend seems to be to double a failed strategy. How about sitting down and properly studying what and how Chicom's PRC is doing right and wrong, in terms of sustaining chicom rule and improving PRC livelihood, without moral and ideological judgement? Know your enemy. I dont think America does. It s too busy weaving righteous and indignant narratives.
Qing Dynasty Chinese and ruling class in the mid 19th century used to say things like "OK they keep beating us and outsmarting us. But they ve only done it by cheating and by being totally devoid of scruples". Ah well...
At the risk of appearing pedantic. I note that in "seeking sutras from the west" [A reference to Journey to the west],” the west refers to India. “Journey to the West” [西游记】is a Ming novel. The actual Tang Monk, Xuan Zang 玄奘，who journeyed to India for 16 years returning to China with 75 previously unknown and untranslated sutra, wrote ”A Record of the Western Regions” 西域记。
Not at all pedantic. These days fact-checking, and accurate citation to historical events, is more important than ever! While certainly not applicable in this particular case, many contemporary references to Chinese history often seems to have been manipulated to serve a contemporary political purpose. So, kudos to Xuan Zang!